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"No Real Need" for Consoles
By Kris Graft
September 29, 2008
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"I think the biggest proof point in the death of consoles in my thesis is the Wii."
On message boards, naysayers have been claiming for years that PC gaming is "doomed."
But John Welch, CEO and co-founder of Diner Dash house PlayFirst says it's the other way around.
"...I think the console is going to be over as we knew it previously. They’re expensive to make, there is no real need for them," he told Venture Beat.
As the head of a business based on mass market online PC gaming, he's convinced that the hardcore console gamer is increasingly a niche audience.
Ironically, he pointed to the massive success of the Nintendo Wii as proof that console gaming is on its last leg.
"I think the biggest proof point in the death of consoles in my thesis is the Wii," he said. "The most successful, most difficult to acquire console in this generation is at least a generation old in hardware.
"The advances are in software and peripherals. Why do you need a box for that? If the real expansion is occurring because of what Nintendo has done, why do we even need a console?"
He said that technology on par with the Wii's could be implemented in "your average set top box."
Welch continued, "How much would it cost to integrate Wii-like technology into a set top box, if anything even needs to be specialized? What we really need are more standards around the input devices."
Welch's comments are in line with those of fellow online exec Alex St. John, the head of WildTangent.
“The console era is fading rapidly because graphics are no longer the differentiator: people are looking for other things like community or new types of input," St. John recently told Edge.
Utter nonsense, to even say that you could " integrate Wii-like technology into a set top box" just shows how little he knows about the hardware required, not to mention the patents required for motion control. We are talking a completely different price range. Maybe you could incorporate a set top box into a console, and perhaps next gen we'll see more of a combining of these types of hardware, but it'll be the consoles absorbing the set top boxes not the other way round.
Well, I was going to say I disagree, but everyone seems to have that covered.
So, um, good show.
Too much Diner Dash for him and last I checked the Wii is a console. It sits in your living room and takes disc. If anything its the essense of a console, unlike PS3 or Xbox which are fitted with harddrives like a PC.
So because the XBOX 360 and PS3 include a HDD, they're not consoles? O_o;
And last I checked, the Wii does have a HDD. Its just meager. Meh.
Really when you get down to it, all consoles are computers. I don't think it would hurt to give consoles the power of a PC as time goes on.
I think alot of the success of the Wii is down to advertising.
Gamers are depicted as healthy, good looking sociable people,( the exact opposite of the stereotypical image society would a painted a few years back,) it gives the target audience the impression that they can be just as happy/popular as the actors if they buy the product.
Which may not necessarily be right in a moral sense or true, but it does sell. Just like slimfast.
The guy in the article is just trash talking, Pc's and consoles aren't going anywhere. Their capabilities + functions may change to meet demands, but there will always be a market for both.
Casual gaming isn't the future, it's just another genre.
My Wii is also gathering dust, I'd like to use it more often, but I just don't feel the urge..................... what?
How does the marketing scheme you outline differ from Microsoft and Sony's? If it works for Nintendo, wouldn't it work for them too? My point is, you can't chalk this up to marketing with so many variables playing into people's console selection.
And it sounds like your basing your marketing analysis on Wii Fit alone, not so much general Wii console marketing.
No, you've misunderstood me. I'm not bashing the Wii.
I'm pointing out that Nintendo actually advertise their product effectively.
If I watch daytime Tv I can see up to 2-3 Wii/Ds adverts per break between each programme, which is at time when the potential customers will be watching. X360/Ps3 adds are a rare sight.
Some of the biggest selling games over these past few years have been mediocre movie-licenses - all atributable to the popularity of the brand rather than actual quality. People aren't going to buy what they don't even know exists. Advertising does have a major impact.
How am I bashing Wii fit? Because I mentioned Slimfast??? .... (O_O)
No, I was commenting on a type of advertising which is used by many different industry groups on Tv, which Nintendo's advertising resembles, before which videogame adverts used to be artistic or just 'in game footage'.
My comment on casual gaming is aimed at the article, and it's true - it is a genre.
My last comment was a joke, a bad one I know, but then again all my jokes are! T__T
I do own a Wii actually, I do like Zack and Wiki and No more Heroes, but it still rarely gets used. It's not that I dislike casual games, I just don't feel they're as well implemented on the Wii as they are on the DS.
My Ds I like , my Wii..... undecided....!
Who exactly does he think they should be putting in their ads, morbidly obese people with no teeth? Exactly which company DOESN'T use fit, visually appealing people with big smiles, enjoying their products, in their ads?
**sigh** Can you actually 'read' my post before commenting????
Yes , lots of companies do that, ..... except the majority of videogames adverts prior to the Wii which entailed in-game footage , or weird artsy clips with talking ducks,.... no not Phil Harrison's duck , the other one! :p
As a matter of fact, I did read your post. Twice, actually. As I do before I answer any post here, to make sure it is accurate and makes sense.
In this case, I think I misunderstood the point you were trying to make. When you said "Gamers are depicted as healthy, good looking sociable people,( the exact opposite of the stereotypical image society would a painted a few years back,) I assumed you meant that that was an inaccurate representation of who is actually playing Wii. But you are right in what you said about past advertising. Although, if you see the ad for "Mario Kart", which contains a cheesy, used car salesman selling the game the way one would sell a car, and it is chalked full of game footage, you'd probably agree they haven't quite learned their lesson.
Personally, I don't care what machine does the calculating for my gaming experience, just as long as I am able to play from the couch while using a wireless controller.
He has a point about the Wii. In my mind, I've always thought that we would have another video game crash in the future if the Wii and DS never existed. Consoles gets more expensive each generation and their advantages over PC increasingly slim. They're practically already PCs except they require less troubleshooting and maintenance. What's going to happen once we hit photo-realistic graphics?
We may hit photo-realistic graphics one day (hell maybe we hit it yesterday) but if it doesn't coupled with realistic animation, well, it's no use.
I'd throw in Zelda, those 80 hrs were well spent.
Yes my Wii started collecting dust once i stopped playing Mario Kart, but even if i never play it again ever i can look back at some of fond gaming experiences.
I love how these PC guys say that consoles are dead and consolde guys say the PC is dead. Let the gamers decide.
Meh, to some extent he has a point. I don't see any real innovations in terms of graphics and whatnot because both the Wii and the DS have proven that that seems to be a non-issue to your average consumer. Much of the Wii and DS's technology can easily be implemented into today's computers and portable hardware (iPods, cell phones, etc.).
However, PCs are still more expensive and then there's the issue of compatibility. Gaming PCs can go up into the thousands when you can get a decent experience from a dedicated gaming machine (such as the XBOX 360 or PS3) for a fraction of the cost.
I do think there will be a future, though, where graphically intensive games will be less mainstream. Personally, I think gaming will be more of a portable experience and that's the direction I look forward to.
I agree in that the Wii is a step in the wrong direction. Of course that's also the reason to its success and why more people own one than a PS3 or 360. To anyone with least concern of where the gaming industry is heading towards and who enjoys state of the art technology in games, of course this is an issue. (Although it could also be an indicator that players don't crave new technology, but rather other form of improved content, in future games.)
And now to my main point.
Fortunately, it doesn't look half as bad as what this guy is making it look. The reasons why PC game production has been severely weakened are simple: There is no cheap way to maintain a top of the line gaming computer, PC games are to a much higher extent victim to piracy, the average person don't have high definition PC screens or cozy sofas around your desk, etc etc
The reasons are many why console gaming has taken over PC gaming lately. Frankly, I strongly disagree with the things put forward by this man. Currently, PC gaming is defending to consoles pretty well. But in the long run it's hopeless to think it will be able to compete with the steady flow of fantastic console games.
Another edge that console games have over PC games are the intensive requirements they have to meet before being released; Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all have sets of technical requirements that all games released on their consoles must meet, and while this doesn't eliminate all bugs from the games, it certainly minimises them.
There is no equivalent on the PC platform, and games often come out months before they're ready - just so they meet the strict deadlines imposed on developers by their publishers. Even when releasing through online distribution services such as STEAM, there are no technical standards that a game is required to meet (ie not crashing).
Hopefully when Microsoft gets their new Games for Windows Live service up and running we may start to see a change.
Games for Windows is the biggest bunch of crap ever. There is nothing there to offer developers or consumers. All it is is a way for Microsoft to strangle hold the PC market.
By agreeing to the GfW standards you are basically agreeing to ignoring the sizable and growing Mac and Linux gamers.
Sure there are not as many of them right now, but they are growing and they would like some serious treatment.
I don't disagree, GFWL is, as it stands at the moment, rubbish... there are no benefits to developers or consumers adopting it.
In saying that, I think that's going to change quite substantially; it sounds like Microsoft are going to be heavily updating GFWL in the near future so it resembles XBLA - including all the matchmaking stuff. While it's not making me jump up and down for joy, it's a step in the right direction.
Very true. But many of those features are available on Steam, and without the platform lock in. Well, Steam may be Windows only, but the games are not forced to be.
"The advances are in software and peripherals. Why do you need a box for that?"
Because hardware restrictions bring out the best in programmers and artists; it's been the same for almost every console or fixed hardware computer ever sold. Initially it takes a while for to come to terms with the capabilities and limitations of a console's pipeline, but after a year or two the games that get produced really push the limits, and are better because of everyones inherent understanding of the system.
This simply doesn't happen with PC games in a market where processor speeds are pretty much doubling every six months. As a result we get behemoths like Crysis - show me a PC for under $2000 that can run that with the settings turned up.
Consoles put everyone playing the game on the same footing, and that is something you'll never get in the PC market.
Exactly.
The Wii is not a console and real gamers dont buy Wii's. The Wii is not good for the gaming industry, it gives non gamer the wrong idea of what gaming is about.
“The console era is fading rapidly because graphics are no longer the differentiator: people are looking for other things like community or new types of input,"
THE Wii HAS NONE OF THE ABOVE.
The Wii might as well say Fisher Price on it. Its a kids toy, nothing more.
You people are funny. Can I have some of that meth?
"The Wii is not a console and real gamers dont buy Wii's."
Now that's just silly. ;)
Yeah, that is a bit silly agreed, but there is some truth behind it. If you're a gamer (by gamer I mean someone serious about it, not someone who plays once in a while when his buddy comes over) then you crave many things from your console above and beyond just "fun". The Wii saddly lacks many of the features that shoot, the xbox 1 had, and for gamers that is a travesty. Online community (you can get online on the Wii, but you won't find too many people there...), multiplayer features/support (you can't tell me Wii's 3 games that go online with no voice and many other features missing can be considered true online play), HD graphics (sorry, but that matters quite a bit to a "gamer"), Dolby Digital 5.1, any resolution over 480p, no streaming music from your pc, no media sharing, no media/movies/tv shows/demos/trailers/vidocs/, etc (I could go on and on).
I THINK that is what he was getting at. The only thing IMO the Wii offers over the other systems but could do a much better job at is offering a 4th dimension to controller input. In metroid for example, to open certain doors, you have to reach out with you real world hand with the remote, "grab" the handle, pull a lever out, turn it, and push it back in. That kind of interaction is what I was expecting more of from the Wii, but I think it has been a victim of its own success with so much shovel-ware mini-game gimmicky crap hitting the shelves. No one seems to be putting much creativity into their games and that is where the Wii can really shine to proper "gamers". In my mind it has failed to do that, and is why my 2 1/2 year old is the only one in my family who really enjoys playing the Wii, as any one can wiggle a stick around...
I consider myself to be a gamer, but graphics and processing power are far from the top of my list of preferences. You know what is at the top? Good Game play. You heard me. I like to play games that are fun to play.
First off, I'd like to tell all my edge buddies that I have a new addition to my family. I just got home from the hospital after 4 days. We added Katelee to our family which now stands at 5 people. My gaming time is only going to get smaller and smaller, and my friends will all pass up my gamerscore, too. Any way, back to business...
Well, how bout good gameplay AND good graphics? Why be forced to settle? If Nintendo did both of those things...sheesh, I wouldn't have dumped them and I'd still be a Nintendo fan boy. And I didn't mention JUST graphics, there are a million things the Wii lacks that I find a necessity in modern gaming. There's quite a bit of people that I'm sure agree with me, and there's probably a few "gamers" that agree with you as well.
And one of my biggest problems with the Wii as I stated in my post is that most of the games don't really take advantage of the motion control in a creative way. Other than replacing movement of the left or right analog stick, or reducing gameplay to gimmicky wand waving, there is little to offer in the creative department. That is my biggest complaint in the Wii, not the graphics. If you enjoy that type of thing, more power to you.
When 80-90% of every household has a set top box and gaming software is available to and compatible with 80-90% of every set top box and there is a standard control scheme for them besides remote and/or keyboard/mouse, then we can talk
As it stands, people like consoles, because they can plug it up to their tv and go. They don't have to think about whether the game they are buying is going to work with the console, because it just will. (that is if they bought it from the right section)
We would need some kind of standard for gaming on a set top before it can even take off. We don't even have a set standard for PC gaming. For that it is whatever works goes. That will not breed a healthy life for a set top box gaming system.
As the head of a business based on mass market online PC gaming, I'm sure he'd love to see the demise of console gaming!
Well, I do think that the wii is a virus destroying gaming as we know it(infecting a household near you!). How many games came out for it that are actually worth playing? Most of them are just garbage jumping on the bandwagon. 360 can now be had for cheaper than a wii, albeit in crippled form. I think nintendo still carries that family friendly aura about it though... and the ps3 is still super expensive, but not actually that much more than a high end model 360. So the numbers make sense... sorta.
The bottom line is that wii is watered down gaming for the masses. I personally don't like it, but I know many people do. The wii is like hollywood churning out crap movies that the average person will love because they wouldn't know a good movie if it slapped them in the face. Occasionally the wii will have a game that got it right, but it's still the child of the town-bicycle. The masses also rave about the wii's great motion controls. Most of the wii motion controls are horrible. Very few games are actually fun or benefit from the wii specific controls. The controls on most games are in-precise and unresponsive.
What about those people that actually want a deep involved game? Have you really found anything like that on wii? The wii is gaming lite. It's for non-gamers.
It never ceases to amaze me how playstation and xbox fans who are upset that the Wii is beating the pants off their favorite consoles will take every opportunity to bash the Wii with nothing but subjective statements and their personal opinion. So much bitterness....
I've owned a Wii twice, and I still don't like it. Where does that put me??? Is it possible that someone could dislike it based on the Wii itself and nothing else? If I ONLY owned a Wii, I'd dislike it as much as I do owning a 360, too. The Wii just isn't for everyone Ozzy, and that's ok.
Absolutely agreed. The Wii isn't for everyone, as many people on this site reiterate in the comments section over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. We all know the "wand-waving is gimmicky," we all know it's "kiddie," we all know it's graphics are "last gen," we all know you can't go online and shoot-up your friends in a 100 person online game, we all know you can't voice chat, get achievements, etc etc etc.... Yet "hardcore" gamers feel the need to keep bringing this up over and over and over again instead of just accepting that not everyone wants the same gaming experience and them and shutting their trap. The Xbox and Playstation don't appeal to me, but you don't see me posting paragraph after paragraph about how it sucks and the people who use it are morons, idiots or any of the other dozens of colourful names Wii users have been called here in the past. If it's sold over 20 million units, it's obviously something other people want. If you're not one of them, then move on.
That's true. It's like they're in some sort of excruciating, physical pain due to the Wii's existence. It's really sad to see. Never have I witnessed such bitterness and hatred over a plastic box. If Wii does beat the PS2 by the end of this gen (as it's tracking above the PS2 in the Americas, Europe, and Asian/Other markets when you align launches), I'm afraid some of these folks might just commit suicide.
Ken and Ozzy on a rampage! The Wii won't pass up the PS2 guys, you know better than that (and that's not fanboyism talking as I hate Sony, that's just a humble opinion). Lets talk in 3 years and see where the Wii is at. If I'm wrong, I'll buy you both a Wii, and I'll throw in a copy of Mario Party 12.
lolz! I'm gonna hold you to that Nick!
Haha, you know where to find me.
That's a smart reply as Nintendo is then (2011) planning it's Wii HD and yes, this current Wii will definitely be over with. So... you're giving them both Wii HDs then, correct? :)
Only if it comes with a peripheral. By then, I won't have one for every day of the month yet. ; )
LMAO,
I'm stressed as shit right now, that comment made my day.
As for your other comment, I'm happy to drop the whole Wii thing already, too.
And bleak, if there is such a thing, I'd be thrilled, would I buy Ozzy and Ken one of them? No, that wasn't the deal ^^
I'm out for now, Mom & Dad are in town helping with new baby, house is a zoo. I'll be on soon enough, and fill my position as the xbox defender (and Wii basher) once again. Late,
Best of luck with the new bundle of future Xbox Live user
Well, its a girl so she'll probably play nothing but cooking mama or animal crossing, since that's the only games girls play right? ^^
Thanks
With regards to the PC versus consoles, it simply has been the difference in experience - since sitting behind a desktop makes me feel I'm working while playing a game sitting on the couch feels I'm actually doing something in my free time. It's also the aforementioned stability of the games: on a well-configured PC, it always feels like your game can still crash while on a console, I tend to forget. Playing a pirated game only makes that feeling worse - and since I like products to be complete, I prefer buying stuff. Right now though, the only game I might play on my PC is the fan-made sequel of Broken Sword (2.5)...
I do not think the Wii changed anything for hardcore gamers - it simply opened other people up to the idea of playing a game in front of their tvs. Due to the more complex nature of this generation of consoles (360/PS3), it is more expensive to make (big budget) games in the first place - and with or without the Wii, certain companies would not be able to pull this off. Result: less (big budget) games and less (big budget) exclusives. And less risk as the more different/innovative games seem to be appearing online - flOw and Echochrome, for instance. Ironically, these type of games seem a direct answer to the alternate route that the Wii has been taking. So... what's hardcore and what's not?
So suddenly playing a Wii is experiencing "watered down" gaming? I disagree. The only difference is the emphasis on a different method of controlling the games - a method that apparently is more accessible to a wider audience. The whole implementation of Mii's is something that makes executives at Sony and Microsoft just wonder why they didn't think of this first. Or well, they sort of did but Sony is too slow with Home and Microsoft needed to first see if people would go for the idea... and now they're adding Mii-like avatars to their new dashboard design.
I do however agree on your statement that the majority of games on the Wii right now are crap and a lot of them are lite. But the games that are good are gems. It definitely is a different gaming experience but to dismiss it as a console for non-gamers is a little ignorant. One of the reasons I think these games are less "deep" is also because developers still need to get used to the idea of making a game for a console that is less cutting edge in specs and has this completely different approach. As a result, the market sees this wide range of crappy, cheap knock-offs and everyone's Wii is gathering dust.
Nice post.
Well put.
I couldn't agree more.
And the fact that this guy is even bringing price into the equation when talking about PC games is moronic. You can't play PC games on a machine for less than $1000 and that will last you about 8 months. And have fun with the continually updated drivers and the performance issues they cause. Those are some issues he conveniently left out of his little rant.
I disagree - the PC is a perfectly viable gaming platform.
Well, the drivers and performance part are partially right, especially if we're dealing with your standard non-gamer fare. But if you know anything about gaming on the PC, that becomes a non-issue.
A PC for under $1000 will last a good while. Check the specs.
Core 2 Duo 2.53GHz $120
Geforce 9800 GTX $160
Intel G31 Mobo $55
4GB RAM $65
Generic Case + 500W Power Supply $100
500GB HDD $70
DVD Drive $30
Mouse and Keyboard $32
22" Monitor $250 (1680 x 1050 resolution)
Speakers $10
Total = $892 + Shipping
Rough prices, all from Newegg.
A 9800GTX is a screamer at 720p and makes the PS3's and 360's graphical powers look like the "child's plaything" that everyone relegates the Wii to (seriously dudes, the Wii isn't that bad in the graphics department). That's even considering that it was a last generation graphics card. And the price isn't that far from a console's total cost of operation, especially when you factor in the HDTV, the peripherals, online, etc. If the current consoles are going to last another several years, the PC I just put together will undoubtedly outlast them. Unless, of course, you're the type of person that loves to chase waterfalls in terms of PC hardware.
PC hardware of 2 generations ago (around the GeForce 8 era) is STILL better than the current consoles - and even then, they're still kicking in terms of being able to play the most current games.
Very nice post!
Yeah computers can really push the edge if you just put some effort into building them together. I have no doubt the occassional PC game will rape contemporary console games, like Half-Life 2 and Crysis did when they were released (although the second wasn't a huge success).
For a continous flow of good games, albeit not of top notch PC quality, I still take consoles though.